Universal Access To All Knowledge
Home Donate | Store | Blog | FAQ | Jobs | Volunteer Positions | Contact | Bios | Forums | Projects | Terms, Privacy, & Copyright
Search: Advanced Search
Anonymous User (login or join us)
Upload

Reply to this post | Go Back
View Post [edit]

Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: Jan 23, 2004 1:55am
Forum: etree Subject: The MP3 process

So, with the technical implementation nearing completion, I figured I'd give a heads up on how the whole MP3 process will function.

Very soon an interface will be made available on the "edit details page" (which is accessible to the administrators and to the uploader of the show) which allows users to select which formats not to make. The interface will be available when editing an existing show or adding a new one. This interface creates a rules file and puts it in the directory with the show. The system then examines that file and will not make any of the formats listed in it.

For users who have uploaded many shows in the past (>=10 shows) that do not want lossless formats made, yet (understandably) do not want to deal with the tedium of editing every show they've uploaded, we'll have a process for applying the changes to all your existing shows. The process will basically entail uploading a file to your upload directory, which I'll then use to automatically create the rules file in all your shows directory. It should be noted that this is only for already existing shows, not for ones you contribute in the future.

For users who continue to contribute new shows, yet don't want to have to click the boxes every time, you will be able to upload a file into the show directory with special contents that will tell the system to automatically check the boxes for you and not make the formats. The file will be named IDENTIFIER_rules.conf, where IDENTIFIER is the name of the directory (e.g. sci2003-12-31.shnf). You're basically precreating the rules file, instead of using the interface to do so.

Finally, it should known that you can always change your mind. If you decide not to check the MP3 boxes in the interface (thus allowing MP3s to to be made), yet change your mind in two weeks and then check them, the MP3s will be deleted.

This system was designed to give you the utmost control over what derivative formats are created from your uploads. Its a complex technical implementation, so I hope you will all bear with us as we tweak it. I appreciate everyone's support.

If any part of this message is unclear, please post questions. Please, however, do not bombard us with requests regarding format conversions and your shows. When we're ready, I'll post very detailed instructions. Just sit tight until then and please remember that we will not make lossy versions of your uploads if you follow the instructions. We have no interest in making contributors upset :)

Thanks!

Jon

This post was modified by Jonathan Aizen on 2004-01-23 09:55:07

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: CMJohn Date: Jan 23, 2004 2:26am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The MP3 process

Here is my *only* reservation with this process: What's to stop someone from changing the source file on one of my tapes and uploading it as their own? Will the admins be able to deal with this?

And sometimes people upload shows that aren't their own (without changing the source). Will the *original* taper be allowed to decide whether or not to allow mp3s, or is it only up to the uploader? I know there are a few shows up here that I taped but I did not upload...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: blu666z Date: Jan 23, 2004 2:33am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The MP3 process

I've got the same concern. I think there are 6-7 of my shows up here and none were uploaded by me and I DO NOT want them converted to MP3.

-Kevin

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: thoman8r Date: Jan 23, 2004 3:03am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The MP3 process

Jon,

I apologize if I'm misunderstanding the system, but it sounds to me like the default will be to encode mp3s? I have a real problem with this. Say a taper doesn't want mp3s made of stuff he's already contributed, but do to whatever circumstances there may be, he doesn't get to the archive in time to upload the configuration file that says not to convert to mp3? I think the default should always be NO MP3. That way no one is getting screwed, because once the mp3s are made available for download the damage is done. I also think when you upload a new show, that the default for the checkbox should be "checked" for mp3 (if "checked" means no mp3s will be made). I'm interested to hear your response to these concerns.

Dave

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Stupac Date: Jan 23, 2004 4:49am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The MP3 process

I can understand everyone's concern with shows being converted to MP3, but alot of people find new music through P2P networks like Kazaa and the like. I know I have discovered alot of good shit through sharing MP3s, some of which are live. I think that if someone gets into the music enough they'll hear about lossless formats and opt for the higher quality recordings over conserving disk space for some lossless bullshit. At least that's how I got here. My $.02. Peace,
Stu

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: thoman8r Date: Jan 23, 2004 4:57am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The MP3 process

All of the arguments, pro and anti mp3 have already been discussed ad nauseum. There's really no reason to rehash it again. The purpose of this thread is to discuss concerns and questions with the process of opting out/in of mp3s for your recordings.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: kjellquist Date: Jan 23, 2004 5:00am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The MP3 process

yeah...and my question was not a pro/con MP3 question. I am questioning a person's objection to what is done with a file after it has been uploaded/downloaded, etc. I would like to read arguments for and against control of one's files once they have made them public.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: thoman8r Date: Jan 23, 2004 5:13am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The MP3 process

Maybe one of the admins can provide you with a link to the old debate, during which every possible viewpoint known to man was expressed at least 10 times each. I'm sure most of us are really wanting *not* to go through that again.

BTW whoever moderated that other post and my reply, thank you. I was about to suggest that myself.


This post was modified by thoman8r on 2004-01-23 13:13:30

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: Jan 23, 2004 3:05am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The MP3 process

What's to stop someone from changing the source file on one of my tapes and uploading it as their own? Will the admins be able to deal with this?

This type of dishonesty is very difficult to deal with. Users could also rip and sell your recordings on eBay. Clearly if you find out about a user doing this, you'd let the administrators know, and they would deal with the posted recording accordingly, and the user would be deal with harshly. Dishonesty about source and that type of disrespect has no place here.

And sometimes people upload shows that aren't their own (without changing the source). Will the *original* taper be allowed to decide whether or not to allow mp3s, or is it only up to the uploader? I know there are a few shows up here that I taped but I did not upload...

Well, I thought about this too. I think the appropriate course of action in that case is to contact the uploader (and to do so, a feature will be made available on the details page) and ask them to make the change. This should be the first step because I'd bet that 95% of the time the uploader will respect the taper's wishes and furthermore will respect them in the future too. If contacting the uploader doesn't work, the admninistrators can take care of it for you. Clearly, however, it is difficult to give the taper the ability to edit other people's uploads. The only way to do that would be to ask the uploader to supply the taper's email address, and then if your login is the same as the one the uploader supplied, allow you to edit. That, however, could lead to fraud and trouble if some other user beats you to the website, signs up under your email, and hijacks your recordings. Since that's the case, if contacting the uploader fails (no response, not willing to make change), the administrators can intervene and make the change for you.

Again, I reiterate that we want to show the utmost respect and consideration here, as we've tried to do every step of the way since the LMA started. We're very appreciative of tapers and uploaders contributions, and I'm grateful that we managed to come to a good middle ground.

This post was modified by Jonathan Aizen on 2004-01-23 11:05:14

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: CMJohn Date: Jan 23, 2004 3:15am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The MP3 process

As long as the admins are willing to deal with these issues if and when they arise, I don't see much of a problem. Thank you very much, Jonathan. :o)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbleblanc Date: Jan 23, 2004 4:23am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Buffer Timeperiod

If we're going to enable this for all of the bands/recordings at once, one thing that I think will help ease this process is a 2 week timeframe between allowing contributors to create the rules for their additions, and the actual encoding of the other available formats.

Basically, when the day comes to implement these choices give everyone about 2 weeks to make sure they have read the instructions and followed them for all their contributions before the other formats actually appear.

-Brad

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: stonecrest Date: Jan 23, 2004 6:31am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The MP3 process

This is somewhat off-topic but I just wanted to give a big thanks to the LMA admins for continuing with this project, I'm glad to see that it's coming to fruitation. I think that a lot more bands will sign on to the idea because of this, and I'm very interested in getting a taste of some of these bands I've never heard of without having to download huge files.

Out of curiosity, what mp3 encoder and compression algorithms are being used? Hopefully lame's VBR at the very least, although I'd love to see the -r3mix preset being used. (I'd even be quite satisfied, although to a lesser extent, with the larger files that the -aps preset creates.)

-Scott Horowitz
http://www.theskyiscrape.com

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: Jan 23, 2004 6:46am
Forum: etree Subject: Encoders and encodings

Lame is the encoder being used for MP3s, oggenc for Ogg Vorbis.

We will be using --preset=standard to make the VBR MP3s. Additionaly CBRs will be made.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: car Date: Jan 23, 2004 4:16am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The MP3 process

in my honest opinion...mp3 is pollution(lossy compressed garbage). Etree used to have high standards for seeding and spreading music. Im not to sure anymore. Remember the old days: friends dont let friends use mp3. BTW does all this sprout from the arrangement with the Disco Biscuits? Its seems like its more than coincidence that this comes right after the whole biscuits policy for the archives came about.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: sjspaulding Date: Jan 23, 2004 12:21pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The MP3 process

First off who owns the rights to the live recordings? Is it the band being recorded or the person doing the recording. If it is the band, which I would think it is since they give the permission to have their music on the site, don't they have the ultimate say as to what formats their work is distributed in. It doesn't seem like the recorder/uploader has the right to demand a certain file format. If I understand correctly this system is in place to keep the uploaders happy so they keep uploading, am I correct?

Terms of Use (10 Mar 2001)